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that is one loooooooooooooong guide. Very detailed though. :)
i'll be checking the comments regularly for this page, up till january even, so feel free to leave your questions here and i will try my best to get to them.
you can also email me at pinkpau [at] gmail.com :) i may take up to a couple of days to reply though; i barely have time for homework as it is...!
just a question though, i don't quite understand the US education system (i've tried and tried to, but I never quite grasped the concept) after you graduate in 2012, what would you have graduated with? a bachelor's degree? in what? how is it that you can enter a college without knowing what you will major in? and where does the master's come in? and do americans ever call college, 'university'?
sorry, but NOBODY seems to be willing to answer my questions. too bad for friends who are pro-UK but not pro-US ed! :(
you want to be EXTREMELY careful when deciding to include additional stuff, e.g. throwing in TWO recs when the form only asks for one. adcoms are generally super secretive about admissions but a couple of nyu admissions people have mentioned not liking additional stuff because it gives them more work to do. if a college asks for one rec, give them one la. no point giving them two because they're just going to randomly pilih one and throw the other away and that's such a waste of paper :( i feel strongly about saving the trees because i go to nyu. eh it's true!
also..... the resume. i know it's a good opportunity to show off, BUT carefully consider any restrictions the application form might place on you. when i applied to tisch @ nyu they asked for "no more than one page". essays were "strictly no more than 500 words". stuff like that. really scary. i don't know if they actually have time to count your words so they know just where to stop, but i'm sure they can kind of gauge where the 500 mark is roughly lah. back to the resume: take all your best achievements, ESPECIALLY the ones that relate to your major (if you've got one), and try to stuff them into no more than 1 page. internships are a good addition :)
and to add to su ann's bit about sat II - the subjects you decide to take are generally up to you UNLESS a college tells you you have to sit for certain subject tests. if you're going to do engineering you obviously should do math 2 and physics (chemistry also acceptable but physics is much easier). if you don't have a major yet, do math 2 anyway and something else you think you're good at. i did english lit too, but if you found sat I a bitch i'd tell you to stay clear of the literature test.
um, wah. what a long comment. haha. i'm off :D
good job! let's keep passing on the knowledge
Just curious since I'm in my Form 5.
Am definitely looking forward to read the other 2 series... :)
To all US universities aspirants, do read through this guide thoroughly and learn from the experience of pinkpau. I would say that this is one of the most comprehensive guide, specially customized for Malaysians. Thanks, Su Ann.
If any of you have questions, do post it here. Am sure Su Ann would reply it religiously~!
My little advice to all the applicants: Do put in the hard work and you'll be duly rewarded.
btw how do you convert your SPM/ pre u grades to GPA?
great to share out your knowledge.
wow i've been planning to undertake masters in the US after finishing a degree in Australia and work for a couple of years.
do you think a 3 years Australian degree is qualified for their masters?
and the application process is also that complicated?
hope to see your reply soon :)
why do you choose Columbia in the end instead of UPENN and the others?
curious. *.*
Do your research, before applying, especially technical field.
Good luck and make your parents proud.
ok very irrelevant bye bye
/clap clap for the very very very long post
Ermm...kinda relieved I've finished uni and all that :P
i hope i'm, to visit someone. hehe
I have never commented but have been reading your blog for a few months already. You're doing a great job! :D
Anw, I'm feeling quite worried because I used to be a Student Councilor (like a prefect and I was nominated by my teacher so it was rather prestigious) but I resigned early this yr because I wanted to spend more time on my studies. I think it made a really bad impression of me on the teachers who handled my resignation.
I did a lot while I was an SC, and it was quite impressive because I was given many opportunities to chair the whole event even though I was only a junior. I was even put in charged of my seniors. :O So my records are good but won't my resignation reflect badly on me?
Should I even add my achievements as an SC into my application?
Ella: yeah, after pinkpau grad in 2012, would be bachelor's degree. She would choose her major maybe in 1-2 years' time. Essentially, US system is different, where you may only be taking a certain % in a field, when you major in it. Eg: only 20% of my courses are in engineering, when i major in electrical & computer engineering.
Master's would come after graduate, if you want to pursue. College is used to call "universities". Feel free to pose questions here, am sure Su Ann would be happy to answer. :)
Grace: actually most ivies hope to see more rec letters, but must be quality, and as Su Ann said, cover different things for each one. For essay, general rule of thumb, don't exceed by more than 10% or so, unless you can keep them engaged.
Lind: For A in SPM, 4 marks, B is 3 marks. Then weight it. Her case, 4*12+3=51. And then (51/52)*4=3.92 .
Ee Vonn, master is equally complicated. On 3 year degree, you can write in to justify, but usually they want 4 year degree.
anon, would say to get into ivies, better track is either ADFP, A Level, STPM, IB.
bunbread, you can definitely turn that into a positive one. The track record, and even talk about your mistake. Have seen many essays that talk about weaknesses and got in. Everyone does make mistake and main thing is you learn from it.
Su Ann,am still overly amazed by your fantastic article... It has practically everything that I have in my mind or what I would advise others, but you have managed to put all in words. So now, before anyone asks me any question, I want to get them to read this 3 times first word by word and make sure they really understand it.
Sorry for this one being very very long...
Thank you so much and take care.
about those application essays, what if i dont know what major i want to do yet? do i still need to write why i chose that major and stuff?
I'm applying to columbia! =)
the writer of this comment needs to decide what he wants to do with his life.
Just wanted to say that I really admire the effort you put into writing this post. Most people probably couldn't even be bothered writing a post on college admissions for people they don't know, let alone such a detailed one.. I'm sure this post will be of great help to those who are applying to the states.
Well done! =)
"what goes round, comes around"
ella goh : i think a few people have answered your question very well! but well a quick answer from me anyway. college in the US is where high school kids go to after finishing 12th grade, which is our equivalent of Form 5, only they study 12 years whereas we we study 11. which is why international students usually have to make up that last year by doing some form of Pre-U or college elsewhere before we apply to US colleges. when you enter college, you spend 4 years, and you graduate with a bachelors degree in whatever it is you choose to major in. with a major, you can also choose a concentration, and a minor. the US system is such that you have to complete credits (basically, take subjects) in many 'main fields' ie math, sciences, history etc. it's a requirement. so even though let's say you are pretty sure you want to major in chemical engineering, you would still have to complete credits in subjects not related to your major, ie music or history or psychology. so a major is what you can declare when you have X amount of credits in a certain field, usually 20 -30 credits, cos you kept taking different subjects in the same field. assuming in the span of 4 years, you kept taking lots of psychology subjects and lot of math subjects, and both fulfilled the 20-30 credits requirement, then you can choose between both which one is to be your major, or you could double major. so in essence.. you dont have to decide what you wanna do just yet, because when you enter college, you have to do a lot of different subjects anyway :) people usually change their 'intended major' 2-4 times during their college years. gosh what a long answer. hope it wasnt too confusing
grace : thanks for the emphasis on having to be careful with the additional stuff! it's actually quite important to not send in too many irrelevant things, so guys, please take note of this. as for the recommendations however, i did actually apply to NYU and i sent in a total of four recommendations (2 teacher, 1 counselor, 1 employer) even though only two were required (1 teacher 1 counselor). no problems there for me :) i took the risk because i felt that it was very important for the adcoms to see my recommendations. as for essay word requirement, i think a 100 or so words in excess is okay sometimes.. but dont terlampau la :)
jared t : no no they dont write letters for everyone. when you graduate high school you get your leaving cert which is just a list of your grades and what your extra curricular achievements were. for letters like these, you have to approach your teachers direct. and my name is not sue!
lind : a GPA is out of 4.0, usually. A's are 4 points, B's are 3, C's are 2, and D's are 1. you add them all and divide by number of subjects. so because i took 13 subs and got 12 A's 1 B, my GPA is (12 x 4) + (3 x 1) divided by 13. hence 3.92 out of 4 :)
ee vonn : it's the same app process but with a couple more sections. yes as long as you graduated with a degree you can apply for grad school here in the US. but this is an area i'm really not too familiar with. as for why columbia over the others, it was the city of new york, politically charged environment of columbia and diversity in culture that made me choose columbia :)
cooknengr : excellent point :)
bjk : it was the city of new york, politically charged environment of columbia and diversity in culture that made me choose columbia!
anon : okay this is a subject i know a lot about. haha. ADP is the cheapest, quickest, easiest way to get into the US, butttttt it's very hard to get into the top schools, because most top schools (ie the ivy leagues and others of equal caliber) do not take international transfers. essentially the ADP is a transfer program which i am sure you know, but you will find that even if you take ADP and wanted to transfer to a second or third tier school in the US, sometimes they dont take all your credits because they feel that the subject matter covered in our local ADP is inadequate. if you ask me.. the best pre-u to take if you wanna apply to the Ivies are A Levels and the International Baccalaureate. i wish i'd knew this :)
yi jean : i took the five core subjects, english for science and technology, physics, biology, chemistry, additional math, computer science and english literature.
bunbread : it's no problem at all because in your application you shouldnt have to state that you resigned. just put in your roles and achievements as an SC within the X number of years that you were one, and it should be fine :)
lind : dont worry, it's completly normal to apply to colleges without knowing what you wanna major in. that is the whole point of the american college system. they usually dont ask yout to write essays on what you want to major in. if they DO ask, just pick the one major you think you would like most, and explain why, and explain what you have done or achieved that is significant to this major.
xiao : awesome :) hope to see u here next year
martian : okay two months ago i would have definitely said come to wall street, but now i think the most moneymaking to do is parody wall street on youtube
ben franklin : what! and thanks for ignoring my text!!!
you are still the coolest blogger on earth!
Thanks for the reply :)
If possible apply more well known University because they have more funding.
If engineering recommended:
MIT
Georgia Tech
Purdue
Penn. State
Stanford and many more
It costs a lot to attending any of these ivies, even the second tier ivies would start at US$30k to about US$50k for the top tier, and wondering if you receive any financial aid, scholarship, grant and/or college work/study, and would like to share with us your experiences.
If this is not too personal, did you sit for SAT/ACT and what are your scores.
And of course, kind-hearted as ever - this will be a godsend to anyone's who's planning to go to college in the US =)
ps: I love the blurb at the end - how's calculus going hahahah? Okay, that was kinda cruel. But you'll be okay Su Ann - scale the calculus mountain thou shalt!
However, not all unis accept transfers from community colleges, probably will be competitive / difficult to transfer in some cases, so as in any other decisions one makes in life, please do some research =p
Also, one advice when choosing a university to attend is to choose one that is highly ranked for your intended major. Ivy schools might be prestigious, but might not be the best for a certain major/field. Harvard is probably the best for business but not necessarily for other majors, ie chemistry.
Every year, USA Today ranks colleges and unis in the States and is generally regarded as the 'best' rankings you can find, and many corps/companies use them as well. Link: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college
or you can try Princeton Review: www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings.aspx?uidbadge=%07
The US education is great in the sense that you get to pick your classes as long as you satisfy the requirements for your major and graduation. I think all universities also have a broad general education requirement for the first 2 years, so at least when you graduate from uni you know some history, chemistry, physics, music etc and not just whatever you're majoring in. Basically as many others have pointed out, in the first 2 years is mainly general education and satisfying requirements for your major. Then in your sophomore year you declare for your major and depending on your results in the first 2 years, you might or might not get admitted to your major. In the final 2 years is usually when you do your major classes and finishing off whatever classes / technicals you need to graduate.
As for the college/university confusion, in the US as far as I know a university is a collection of colleges. I went to the University of California - Berkeley, which comprises of Haas School of Business, College of Letters and Sciences, College of Engineering, etc.
Also, Pre-U is a good thing to have, but not necessary IMO. I went to a community college in California (De Anza College) right after my high school , using my SPM trials results (because official spm results weren't out when I applied), and then transferred to UC Berkeley after 2 years at De Anza, and did my final 2 years majoring in Computer Science at UC Berkeley and graduated. Saved me a couple ten thousands usd, and also time (graduated 1+ years before some of my friends, would've graduated 2+ years earlier if I took summer classes), though like mentioned earlier ivy league = pre-u at very least
Oh, and the Malaysian American Commission on Education Exchange (MACEE) is a good place to go to learn about colleges/unis in the US. http://www.macee.org.my/
http://wescribble.blogspot.com
i look forward to part 2 though. :) keep writing!
re: what hw said about choosing the college that is best for you and your major - i totally agree with it. I took my chances with a "lesser-known" college but one that has a great track record in my major, i.e. fashion marketing and management and i totally do not regret it. :) be brave enough to follow what you truly love doing. the US is one of the rare places that has people who will take non-traditional course majors seriously and not regard them as second-rate talent, but rather, help to groom their talents and abilities.
we go for ice cream tomorrow okay? haih now back to my 1 inch pile of readings >.<
I've better apply for Australia or Singapore.. less documentation needed.
again, thank you so so much! you're the best!
thank you so much su ann for your time and effort in sharing this :D so super uber nice of you
I'm probably applying to usa, uk and australia
so this helps alot, the american system is so complicated!
thank you for taking your time to write this.
x
Truly indebted to you....and just at the right time too! coz tomorrow i'm going to my secondary school~
m(_ _)m *bows gratefully*
By the way, can I summit spm report as the MRY ans yet use the same test result as the international supplement ?
thanks in advance ! ^@^
If I were to convert my GPA of my SSR, how should I convert as I had 5 years of GPA.
Or I should convert them 1 by 1, and calculate the CGPA ?
Then, fill only the CGPA in the common app form ? Do I need to attach a letter explaining this ?
Thanks in advance...... thank you !! just feel say thanks to you again and again !!
Were you in sonatina club back then?
Catherine here from malaysia?
And you know dennis as well??
Get back to me as soon as u read this!
if ure the wrong Su Ann, then juz ignore this comment!
thanks! =)
so do some of those posts still count..since ive let them go before i leave sekolah menengah?
thank you SO MUCH for all the info.
would love to read the other 2 parts please and thank you, even if they're lengthier than this.
I have been reading your blog for a few months. I look up to you. Thanks a lot for sharing your knowlegde. Besides, I will like to know the other two parts of the US college application walkthrough.
Thank you.
btw did u have any sort of interviews like perhaps they phone u in and ask for some questions after they received ur package?
thanks
Also, is the teacher's evaluation (TE) and counselor's evaluation (SSR ,MR) the same? For example, if the uni requires two TE do I still need to find two other recommendations since I already get recommendations in my SSR and MR?
Many, many thanks, this site helped me a lot :-)
hw : well said! :)
rainbow : ahhhh i knew i forgot something. the international supplement!!! if i remember correctly, we should submit the international supplement in place of the SSR right? in which case you should use SPM in your international supplement and Pre-U for MYR. i'm assuming from your questions that you didnt do pre-u? i only converted the GPA for the actual SPM, because that was my "final" grade. for the rest of Form 1-5 grades, i just attached transcripts without converting anything. definitely write letters explaining whatever you're doing. all of us should write at least one letter just on the grounds that our system is different from the american system. most adcoms know what the malaysian system is like, but it's always good to explain anyway.
booyah : ooh tough one. did you know that actually you're not supposed to look at your recommendations? you're supposed to sign a waiver of your right to view the letter, and then your recommender is supposed to give you back the letter inside a sealed envelope for you to mail out. so translation by yourself is definitely out of the picture. you COULD edit grammar for them... but know that this is "illegal" and you do this at your own risk. the adcom could call up your school and ask to speak to your teachers (for whatever reason), or email them, and if they find out that your teacher's english is not good, but the letter displays perfect grammar, they're going to think you wrote your own letters. i dont mean to scare you.. but it's something to keep in mind.
cs : that's definitely not good.. :( US colleges are particularly keen on weeding out people who join clubs and then not contribute (ie "activity collectors") or people who are lazy and give up quickly. it would definitely be obvious to them when you are filling out your application, because the duration of all your activities are like only days or weeks long.
-p : well i already said that what works for me may not work for you :) i thought the conversion was important especially if the adcoms were using a specific index to rank their applicants. yes i got interviews.
blue : you shouldnt have to send any certs at all, because you will 'declare' all your activities in the application forms or your resume. yes thats right, i sent in my final year exams for Form 1,2,3,4 with a letter explaining our schooling system (that in the first 3 years we do the same subjects with progressively more difficult syllabi, and that we have a mid year exam and final exams, and then a national exam in form 3, followed by form 4 and 5 where we choose a stream of subjects for two years.. then SPM.. blablabla). hmm you shouldnt convert anything except your SPM results. remember that converting is not necessary, but it was something i chose to do. you can just cross out those sections and put Not Applicable, and attach another letter explaining your ranking in school, how many A's you got, what the highest number of A's in your school was, etc.
jeanette : ok you see the headings for all my sections? some of them have Envelope 1, Envelope 2 etc. these are the envelopes that you send in by mail. at the end of the day, you should have something like 5 to 7 individual envelopes for one school, so what you do is put these 5 to 7 envelopes into one big envelope and mail it to the school you're applying to. so yes you would collect sealed envelopes from your recommenders to put into your Big Envelope. as for the letters... if you looked at your forms properly you would see that the SSR and MYR evaluation space is only for counselors, not teachers. so teacher recommendations should not even be in the SSR in the first place. if you did both high school and Pre-U, you should have 2 teacher recs and 2 counselor recs. if only high school, then 2 teacher recs and 1 counselor rec.
did u apply to others btw, say like toronto or mcgill, up north?
Ok, but I got more questions...
I'm intending to apply to more than one university so I would need duplicate copies of all my reports. But if like you said the teacher/counselor recommendations have to be sealed, then I cannot photocopy them on my own? Do they even accept photocopies of SSR and MYR? Little technicalities... >.<
Uh... I was also wondering if you could please send me a sample of the explanation letters you were referring to regarding the Malaysian school system, grade conversion etc. as I am not sure how to go about it. (Ya, I know you gave an outline but I'm still lost)
*grateful eyes...
as for the explanation letters... my school actually had a kind of booklet explaining the malaysian system and also the school-specific system, so i sent that in. my letters mostly went to explaining the difference between my pre-u and high school, which was sent thru the common app Additional Info, so im afraid i dont have a copy of that anymore. it's not that difficult so dont be daunted :) we all have to work hard to make our applications the best they can be.
i would suggest photocopying your report book if it looks neat and professional enough :)
Thanks for your reply. But I have somemore questions here. As I do not do any pre-u, and I am in the midst of the FIRST sem in ADP, what should I put for my MYR ? I have no results to be summitted. That's is wat made me insane !!!
Oh ya... did you write the cover letters under your own name ? or you write it on the behalf of the so said counselor ?
I am quite curious about how many cover letters have you sent in ? Including the secondary booklets explaining education system. Haha, do u mind to tell us about this ?
Thanks for sharing !!! Grateful........... ^@^
what cover letters? do you mean my for resume, or just the letters that i attached to my transcripts to explain certain stuff? i wrote them under my own name, of course! but my college did send in two letters explaining the ADP program and how it's not a valid pre-u. complicated! i dont remember how many letters i sent in.. probably 3 or 4, explaining the school system and resume cover letters.
aiya it doesnt matter how many cover letters i sent in. it differs from person to person. if you feel like you have a lot of things to explain, ie why your grades were really poor for a certain year, or why your attendance was poor, then you should write letters. but most importantly there should be a letter explaining the grading system of your school.. like what the subjects offered are, the streaming system if your school has that, when and how often the exams are, how students are graded, what's the percentage for A's B's C's etc. some colleges even specifically ask you for that letter.
i appreciate u for posting very much
Good luck in your life and i'm sure all of us are looking forward to your 2 other posts! : )
By any chance, do you know whether post-grad applications carry the same steps as you mentioned?
Thanks in advance!
thanks a lot ya....
really learn a lot from here.
Solved many of my doubts !!
Thanks you very much !!!
Just wondering: some universities mentioned they prefer online application. So can i still apply not through online application? If i do anyway, can i send in the hard copy as back up?
The guide's really amazing, detailed, well-formated, informative, 'yadaa yadaa yadaa', quite frankly I could go on but it'd be pointless because it'd only be repetitive (looking at the comments above =O).
Oh, but I did notice you never use capital letters, and sentence structures are very informal, feels like I'm reading a transcript of somebody's conversation.. Humbleness and colloquial, much better than reading those bland websites or listening to my advisers (mum included).
And sorry, I'm sorta going off-topic. Stating such things as though I'm sorta superior, yet another guality, er quality, of self-imposed and false confidence..
Anyhoo, just wanna say thanks lots (oops, repetitive!), as I will most defiintely, waittt slash that, definitely be referring to this for my application! Which quite sadly may, or may not happen.. Reason being because it depends on my SAT I scores coming out on the 23rd of October aha! Worrisome..
And a bigger worrisome is 24th of October, Cambridge interview! Any tips on that? Suppose you do, considering you pulled through one already, right!
Erghh, re-reading and editing my blob of text, it still seems very convoluted and silly. Ah, a little sorry for given troubles ploughing through this!
Will come and kacaaau more, given my fate on 23rd.
Wow!
is there any format?
if your school uses both their own app system AND the common app, you can choose which one you want to use. usually, people go for the common app because it's less work to send out the same app to multiple schools.